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Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
208
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Posted - 2014.02.05 07:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Basic and ADV dampeners are useless as you need the profile dampening skill maxed out to avoid an ADV scanner using an ADV dampener ( on a medium suit)
To avoid the 28DB scanner you need 2 proto profile dampeners in your low slots
Medium Suits :-
Honestly it should be 1 Basic dampener and lvl 1 dampening to avoid a basic scanner
lvl 3 dampening and 1 ADV dampener to avoid an ADV scanner
lvl 5 dampening and 1 complex dampener to avoid a proto scanner (the 28DB)
Scout Suits :-
Should avoid basic scanners by default
lvl 1 dampening and 1 basic dampener to avoid an ADV scanner
lvl 3 dampening and an ADV dampener to avoid a Proto Scanner (the 28DB)
lvl 5 Dampening and 1 Complex dampener should avoid ANY scanner available (the 15DB)
Right now Dampeners are far too UP v scanners .. they are more of an SP sink, they make you sacrifice 1/2 low slots which is HP/speed
This is why so many Medium suits especially Cal Suits brick Tank .. dampeners force you to sacrifice way too much to counter scanners and with scouts having so few slots using 2 of them up to avoid the best scanners available is just silly and is 1 reason scout suits need some love
[I accidentally posted this is rookie training grounds by mistake] |
Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
208
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 07:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:This is getting changed in 1.8 due to changes in scout skills and profile.
Combine this with scanner changes, and you have a great reason to let this thread die right now.
The scanner is getting buffed for Gallente suits and this doesn't change anything to do with medium suits |
Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
208
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 07:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Pretty sure you only need a Comp and an Adv damp on your suit to get under a 28 DB scanner.
50DB(Med Base) * .9(-10% from lvl 5 profile damp) = 45DB
45(with prof damp skill) * .75(Comp damp mod) = 33.75DB
33.75(with skill and damp) * .8(Adv damp mod) = 27DB
Theres only 9 cpu difference and 5% dampening difference, I would have corrected it but I figured it didn't change my point as it is still 57 CPU and 2 low slots to counter and still requires you to have dampening maxed instead of 66 CPU and 2 low slots |
Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
208
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 11:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:Gal scout, two enhanced damps. I never get scanned.
Yeah but you shouldn't have to sacrifice 2 of your low slots as a scout to avoid a scanner especially as 2 enhanced dampeners cost 48 CPU ..
I'm not even a scout but it's clear to anyone who's used a scanner / damps that the dampening side of it is really UP
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Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
211
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Posted - 2014.02.05 11:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:AFAIK the scanner mechanic is being reworked so that a scan will be a snapshot and not the 360-¦ thing we have now. This will balance quite a few things.
Other than that, I think scanner vs dampeners is fine right now.
Scouts can avoid basic scanners without any skills into dampening (will be able to avoid ADV scanners without skills in 1.8) and a medium suit with lvl 5 dampening and 1 complex dampener can avoid a ADV scan.
If you really want to get below proto scanners with a medium suit you have to use 2x complex dampeners. The resulting lowered HP is a fair price for not getting scanned - in a medium suit!
Fittings made for flanking - which is the reason why you'd not want to get scanned constantly - are and also should sacrifice lots of HP. If you are running with the pack using a dampened suit you are doing it wrong.
What are the downsides to using a scanner ?
I still think it should be as I mentioned above, 66 CPU for 2 complex dampeners 2 lost low slots which is lost HP/Speed and leads you to have to drop a sidearm/grenade/equipment is a far major cost for using them than using a scanner
If the mechanics of them don't change then the CPU cost of them needs to be reduced
PS I should say that after starting this thread and using 1 enhanced and 1 basic on an ADV suit I've been getting 20+ kills in Skirm/Dom solo .. I know how to use a dampened suit I just think the balance is wrong as it takes far more work to dampen your suit than to just equip a scanner
Honestly even though I use a scanner religiously on my logi you shouldn't be able to fire your weapon for as long as the scan is active EG your pressing the trigger to keep the scan up as soon as you release the trigger then the scan ends .. if it had a downside like that then we'd have some form of balance |
Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
211
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 11:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:The reason why dampening is so CPU intensive is because when you use it, it makes an entire class of enemy equipment useless (when applied to you). Scanning and being unscanned imparts a huge advantage over scanning and still getting scanned, and it should and does require sacrifice to obtain.
In pubs, most people only run ADV scanners so you'll only need one complex dampener to evade them. If the numbers were fudged so that proto scans could still be evaded by only one dampener, then they'd slowly fade to uselessness as people realized that evading 99% of the scanners out there only required one slot.
But as some have said, the scanning mechanic will change making them far less effective than they are now. So I think that dampening will also have less importance in the coming build; when it's harder to fire off effective scans, the need to always run dampeners goes down.
Its why after 13 months playing the game I have only just today skilled up to lvl 3 in dampening to try it out .. I got tired of being Perma scanned .. can't flank .. can't use tactics .. just basically put as much HP on my suit and hope i'm not against a full proto squad
Using the scanner made me play badly as I got used to seeing all my enemies all the time so my reactions became slower .. since I started using dampeners today I've been playing awesomely and seeing scan prevented is flipping relieving .. instead of trying to flank and seeing you have been scanned and then giving up or being killed by someone waiting round the corner I get scan attempt prevented ... and then start killing ..
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what 1.8 brings but knowing CCP they'll mess it up |
Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
211
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 11:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:i can use one advanced and one basic to avoid advanced scanners on my medium suits, so it's fine.
Also, scouts are being changed for 1.8 as stated.
Thats what I'm using on my ADV Caldari Assault but I have basically got 1 light weapon 2 dampeners 2 complex extenders and 1 complex damage mod
1 Complex dampener takes the DB below 36 with lvl 5 dampening and is less CPU intensive than 1 ADV 1 basic .. I'd go for that but 727k more SP and I have electronics and engineering at lvl 4 ..
honestly I'd just like to stick on a basic cardiac regulator to the ADV suit and maybe have a grenade lol
My proto I just can't bring myself to lose my enh regulator/enhanced cardiac regulator and enhanced armor plate .. having to drop 2 of those 3 in my low slots just so I can avoid a scanner is such a pain ,, I dont have a grenade or sidearm on that either .. Caldari assault suits kinda suck , you need to use 1 of the low slots for a cpu enhancers to fit sidearms and grenades and maybe even possibly equipment .. if I have to use the other 2 as dampeners it really becomes far too many sacrifices
The only suit I could realistically see using the 2 complex dampeners is my cal logi proto seeing as it has more slots, more CPU to start with |
Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
211
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 11:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Also, guys - you don't need an Adv and basic dampener to avoid Adv scans. Two basics does it just fine on a medium frame.
I don't think anything good will come out of allowing proto scans (except the Duvolle Focused) from being dodge able by using a single slot alone. This just makes it way too easy to dampen all of your suits with little sacrifice, and if it were that easy, everyone would run one and scanners would be useless (except for the Focused which everyone complains about despite no one actually using it).
Well I'll try that then and see if I can fit a sidearm/grenade lol |
Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
216
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Posted - 2014.02.05 12:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:[quote=Zerus Ni'Kator]Basic and ADV dampeners are useless as you need the profile dampening skill maxed out to avoid an ADV scanner using an ADV dampener ( on a medium suit)
You'll actually new a complex damp with complex skills to avoid the adv scanner in a med frame:
50 GÇó .9 GÇó .8 = 36
36 dB with complex skills and adv damp. So, you're still going to get scanned.
Just sayin.
You are right about the proto though. It takes two complex to get below with a med frame
Yeh I realised that and made a comment on it somewhere else on this thread xD
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Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
216
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 12:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:Zerus Ni'Kator wrote:What are the downsides to using a scanner ?
I still think it should be as I mentioned above, 66 CPU for 2 complex dampeners 2 lost low slots which is lost HP/Speed and leads you to have to drop a sidearm/grenade/equipment is a far major cost for using them than using a scanner
If the mechanics of them don't change then the CPU cost of them needs to be reduced
PS I should say that after starting this thread and using 1 enhanced and 1 basic on an ADV suit I've been getting 20+ kills in Skirm/Dom solo .. I know how to use a dampened suit I just think the balance is wrong as it takes far more work to dampen your suit than to just equip a scanner
Honestly even though I use a scanner religiously on my logi you shouldn't be able to fire your weapon for as long as the scan is active EG your pressing the trigger to keep the scan up as soon as you release the trigger then the scan ends .. if it had a downside like that then we'd have some form of balance Downsides, pretty simple. They have quite some fitting costs. You lose an equipment slot. To scan you have to put away your weapon, which makes you defenceless for a few seconds. When someone uses a dampened suit it leaves you with a totally useless tool. And not only the scanner user himself will be unable to see you but his whole squad as well.The point is if you make it so that having 1x complex dampener makes a medium suit invisible to proto scanners, scanners will become absolutely useless, because most people would run dampeners. The way it is now on the contrary makes you think twice if you want to sacrifice your slots in order to make your medium suit invisible to scanners. Scouts on the other hand, should become invisible for proto scanners with just 1x complex dampeners.
Med suit not invisible to all proto scanners just the 28 DB one .. there is a 15DB scanner but it doesn't have the perma scan option so not many People use it thats why I said a scout avoids all scanners with complex and a med only avoids the 28DB one .. if a focused 15DB one is used then Med suits dampened can still be scanned
Honestly if they take away the perma scan on the quantum scanners then there wouldnt be a problem
PS When someone uses a scanner it leaves you totally useless. Not only is your exact position shown to everyone n the enemy team making flanking impossible but it also shows the direction that your facing and the person scanning isn't shown on the radar whilst they are scanning and its in all directions ... and its a 2 second usage but lasts for 16 -20 seconds
I should say that I always use scanners and have only just today started using dampeners so I know exactly what the problem with scanners is seeing as the things that make it so strong are why I used it for so long in the 1st place lol |
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